by Gavin Seim: Ever admired classical art? I think all photographers should take time to look closer at it. You owe it to yourself and your clients to start placing large pieces on their walls. We’ve single handedly ruined much of the furniture quality appeal of photographs. No, it has nothing to do with digital, too many people with cameras, or weekend warriors. It’s “our” fault. We’ve trained ourselves and our clients to think small. People walk through our doors thinking in eight by tens, five by sevens and wallets and we encourage them. It’s making photography a cheap commodity. It’s time to change all that with real Wall Portraits.
Why should an eleven by fourteen hang on your wall? Chances are the wall it hangs on is much larger than that. We’ve fallen into a rut and think that small is all people want for their homes. Often the first response I get when I talk about large prints is “people aren’t buying these in my area”. The fact is that people aren’t buying because you don’t know how to sell. I live in small town America and I’m finding out for myself that people will buy if you show them the value of a beautiful wall portrait.
When you walk into a furniture store are they afraid to show you the larger dining set? Do they act like it’s a stupid to buy the quality leather sofa instead of the cheap import? The only reason clients are asking for eight by tens is because we’ve trained them to. Try showing them a thirty inch wall canvas of their beautiful family and see how they respond. Now you’re selling fine furnishings.
Rather than making my own argument, let me allow history to help us. Below are some classical works, listed with original sizes. We think of these as classics, but when made they were meant to hang on someones wall just like our photographs. Take a few moments to really look at them, then I’ll be back. If you want to and be inspired in print, check out some books like Sargents Portraits Of The 1890’s, Frederick Church, or J.W. Waterhouse.
38"x32" – Gather Rosebuds While Ye May by Waterhouse 1909
80"x52" The Voyage Of Life, Manhood by Thomas Cole, 1842
49"x39" – Lady Agnew by Sergent, 1893.
79"x60" – The Lady Of Shallot by Waterhouse, 1888
112"x91" – Kindred Spirits by Asher Durand, 1849
100"x55" – Frederick Law Olmsted by Sargent, 1895.
119"x66" – Heart Of The Andes by Chruch, 1859
26"x17" – Morning Walk by Sergent, 1888.
143"x172" – Nightwatch by Rembrandt, 1642
Are you getting the picture? (pun intended). The smallest original size here was Morning Walk and it was twenty six inches wide. That’s probably larger than many reading this article have ever sold. Bear in mind that I did not have to search the globe for these examples. This used to be common. Now we hang eleven by fourteens on walls and call it art. We send three by fives to Grandma and make two by three’s for our wallets. It’s not that we should “never” use small images, they have their place, but it’s a balance that’s been thrown far off.
Brushed paintings are still made large. What happened to photographers. Perhaps it was that in the early days of photography it was much harder to make a large image and the quality was far less. I don’t know for sure, but I do know there’s no excuse us. For goodness sake we can make a sixty inch print for less than many spend on coffee every month.
As photographers we should be hanging large pieces. Photographers wounder why their business is being taken by amateurs and box stores. Have you considered that perhaps it’s because you’re not that much different? One thing is certain. If you start hanging fifty inch canvas portraits over the sofa in your clients home’s, nobody will be comparing you to WalMart. Being high quality doesn’t become true because your bio says so. You actually have to produce something high quality.
Making wall portrait sales happen:
So you’re probably thinking “this is all easier said than done”. True, but any professional photographer knows that being a professional is not about simply taking photo’s, it’s about selling them. Selling yourself us always the hard part, whether you’re a photographer or a plummer. It’s a learning experience, but here’s a few key elements I’m finding to selling wall portraits.
- Quality: Good images & service give an experience worth paying for.
- Mindset: If you don’t have the confidence to sell high quality products, you won’t
- Consultations: People are easily shown that large portraits make sense, but communication is key.
- Presentation: Buy a projector (I use this one) & make samples. Showing clients what their getting is key.
I can’t give you a five hundred word summery that will instantly make you sell sixty inch prints. I’m learning it’s a mindset. Consultations, showing your client real examples, projecting proofs in studio or clients home so they can see how amazing a large portrait really is. All these things are important. If you expect to only sell eight by ten prints than that’s probably all you’ll sell. If you expect to sell furniture for walls, bill yourself as that sort of photographer from the start, give good service and produce great results then you’ll sell wall portraits. Some will not hire you because they only want a cheap photographer. That’s OK. Don’t work for nothing just to get a paying job. It’s pathetic. Do you want to be competing with WalMart or making wall furnishings?
The bottom line is that large quality portraits are not just for wealthy clients. Middle America (or wherever you live). They buy cars, they buy vacations, they buy furniture and they will buy wall portraits. It’s about us as photographers learning to sell. You have to understand and show quality before you can sell it and then you have to learn how to sell it. No matter what market you live in, there are people who want quality. Once you begin selling wall portraits to your clients, their friends will begin to understand that it’s being done and OK to do so. Once that happens, chances of them wanting their next piece of furniture to be the their wall just went up ten fold. There’s much more to talk about, but I’ve been learning these concepts and my business is changing as a result.
Why Canvas Is King:
Below is a photo of me with a batch of wall portraits I recently had made. Nothing here is under twenty four inches and everything less than that has come off my studio walls. I don’t want to sell a “picture” I want to sell a furnishing. That’s one reason every one of these photos is canvased (I use mostly real prints bonded to canvas and some inkjet). Either gallery wrap or traditional (made for frames). It’s not that we can’t make large wall portraits on paper or another medium, but canvas stands above the rest in the long run. Many don;t realize that Canvased photo’s were around decades before the modern trend of inkjet gallery wraps. Canvas hearkens back to classical art that has stood the test of time.
When compared, canvased photos make plain paper prints look like cheap imitations of fine art. Durability, texture and no need for glass make them candy for the visual senses and people love them. This is a big way to set your high quality apart from the ordinary prints people are used to. You can get great canvas made from labs like Pacific Color or H&H Color Lab and many others. For Inkjet gallery wraps try Pixel2Canvas, or check with your favorite color lab.
Finally. I did not come up with these ideas all on my own and I don’t have nearly all the answers. Much of the credit for these often overlooked concepts goes to photographer Ken Whitmire and the speakers at his Wall Portrait Conference that happens every Spring. It’s some of the best money I’ve ever spent and you should look into going yourself if you want to take your work to the next level… Gav
Gavin with his latest batch of large prints. All 24-50 inch canvas. Canvased prints, whether inkjet or traditional bonded, gallery wrap or classic, are a great way to set your work apart and increase the quality and feel.
Wall Portrait Closing Resources…
- Wall Portrait Forum Thread.
- Camera Dojo #62, Wall Portrait Basics
- PPS Podcast #60, Time index 01:34:00
- The Projector I use is this Canon LV7330.
Turn Lightroom into a sales and presentation tool. Save 10% with code PPS
People think 8×10 because no one wants to spend $150+ for one 24×36.
They are exceptions, and those are received with large prints for their multi-million dollar houses.
This is great advice. I am thinking of going this route also. I want to see my clients homes with large works in them. Thanks for the ideas.
Nikonian I think you missed the idea here. And you’re incorrect. People think 8×10 because photographers allow 8×10 to be the norm.
The point is they will buy them if you know how to sell them. Not just multi million dollar families, but normal people. I charge far more than $150 for a 36 inch piece. I know people will buy nice portraits if you sell correctly because I’m selling them and I live in a tiny western town.
Nikonian, you’re totally missing the point.
My smallest prints (an 8×8, since I almost always shoot square) STARTS at $125-. It’s the smallest I make. Most of my clients get a 16-inch for $500-. People pay it happily, because they see the value in working with me and having finished photographs that are produced to art-gallery- and museum-quality standards.
I want people to have a beautiful portrait on their wall that they’ll enjoy from across the room, and not just when they’re dusting it! (Thanks to Chuck Lewis for those words … it’s a great thought-image!)
Gavin, I’d add that we as photographers also need to drop the “standard sizes” nonsense. Why do we consider 8×10, 11×14, 16×20 etc. to be somehow sacrosanct? It’s bull! The aspect ratio for any image should be what’s right for that image. The mat or frame should be made to conform to the needs of the image, not the other way around!
Thanks Rich. And yes, std sizes are silly. I would say getting large prints on walls in more important, but size ratio rules are not important.
I basically crop an image to whatever I feel looks good. Sure I’ll order a std size if it works for my image, but I’m not afraid to go out of std.
I price my print based only in the long edge. IE, 24″, 30″ 36″, 40″. That way I can print them whatever ratio needed for the best result.
Gav
Sorry Gavin but I’m not incorrect.
People (as in families) don’t buy large prints because they are too costly and they have no use for them.
Maybe its different where you live, but here they will buy small/medium prints for albums (souvenirs), but rarely to decorate their houses (at least not large formats).
The large prints we do sell, go to rich families/businesses that will hang them next to art pieces (gives me a fuzzy feeling) and the decorate.
I can say that 80% of our large prints are sold to businesses to decorate their offices, not families.
Ronan I really don’t need to defend myself because I’m learning for myself this works. Family portraits are one the the most prime targets for 40-60 inch wall portraits. I know photographers in my region who get $5-10K sales from a single family session by selling large pieces. If you want to ignore this it’s OK with me
That said I’ve started a thread on the forums for those that want to go beyond comments and join a bigger discussion on the matter… http://prophotoshow.net/forum/index.php/topic,1164.0.html
Taken to the thread as per your request.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Going back and studying the masters can revolutionize your photography! Every photographer who’s serious about advancing should do exactly what Gavin did: go back to the source. How inspiring!
I agree with your comment that 8×10’s are popular requests for your portrait sizes because they are what people have been inclined to order and what people have ordered in the past. They are average size and larger prints to some may be considered a luxury. It is about perception and people would be willing to pay for larger sized prints if they were what were seen more often in the market.
I would like to add a little to this topic. We need to understand Gavin who buys these large art canvas’s you have described. Secondly, look at business models for who your target client is, that would buy large photo prints and lastly how I would never compare art to furniture!!! Or at least the way your articulated this posting. Or I would never compare my photos to the fine art masters of the past.
1. Art in the historical sense has always been an organic process to which the artist did truly not have a monetary concept of value for his/her artwork as they started. Instead was inspired to create an interpretation of many things seen and unseen. It has always been the driving force of an artist to transcend common meaning with their art.
2. If you look at who buys large fine art prints like those of the classical or modern era, I would say , it is not you or I. But instead it has always been the wealthy, those who can afford the perceived value of such amazing art. Those with walls large enough for to fit a Durand, Waterhouse, Botticelli, Leighton etc. are the very wealthy. I have a few of those such people in my life as friends and clients and I will tell you that they rather go to an art gallery and flye all around the world and buy a fine art painted canvas or sculpture then to put a 60″ photo print on their wall. It just doesn’t happen Gavin.
3. Now if we are talking about business models then, those are the clients I want. Someone who is willing (and has) to buy multiple Wedding albums for their house, summer house, parents etc and who is willing to pay $5,000 an album. And the largest print they ever purchase has been an 8×10. Buying big photo prints will just take to much real estate on their walls that they rather have a painted fine art canvas that will increase in value.
4. Myself as a photographer, only have no larger then 8×10 prints in my own home and I only have two of those. I just recently did purchase my second Miguel Luciano painting for $8,000 and am not willing to share my wall space with anything else. I have my mantels and bars for my smaller photos.
5. My art is not furniture but rather something that I study, anazlyze, find meaning in and am very proud of. I don’t abuse it like my couch or my stool. It is not a piece of furniture, maybe yours is, but not my art, photos or fine art paintings is not something I put my feet on or sleep on!
I would encourage your listeners, to think of who their target clients are. Is it going to be the $1500 a wedding client who shop at Walgreens. Is it middle america. (FYI, I am in this category). or is it the client who is willing to pay top dollar for your service and your artistic eye as a visual artist and who will drop top dollar for the family/wedding albums. We all have to also understand that art has perceived value, it is what someone is willing your art is worth that will either pay or not pay your asking.
Now, I am sure there are rich clients who would love to buy some major large photo prints, but in my experience that has not been the case.
So, in closing, I would rather (and have sold) thousand dollar albums then focus on large scale photo print. That is because I am a wedding photographer. And that is what my clients want. That is what they pay for and they would never buy a large photo print if they could have a Rembrandt instead.
Also, please stop calling our art funiture. Furniture devalues and our art shouldn’t.
Peace,
Will
I appreciate your detailed response and honesty Will, so I’ll give you my honest thoughts too. I think you are mistaken. As I have pointed out people will buy large canvas for their wall. Lots of regular everyday people. Just because you have not taken the time to learn to sell it does not mean it won’t work.
If you merely want to sell albums that’s fine, but I am no longer content with that. A large piece on a wall will get far more eyeballs than any album and it’s simply knowing how to sell. Classical portrait painters like Sargent were similar to us in many ways. They were hired to make portraits. They just weren’t afraid to make them big.
Furniture? Absolutely. Fine handcrafted furniture takes every bit as much talent as a great photograph. It’s in no way degrading and it’s exactly what I want to sell. If you walked into beautiful home and they have a stunning handmade china cabinet would you put your feet on it?
You seem to degrade photography by thinking that clients will not want to hang large pieces of it. To me hanging and 8×10 is more a degrading to a really good photo. If you only have 8×10’s in your home you must not think much of your work.I know that my work is good enough to hang large. I hope yours is too.
I’ll won’t blather though. I made my case. If you don’t like the idea and continue selling 8×10’s that’s OK. But it will only make those selling fifty inch canvas stand out that much more.
Bigger isn’t always better. This is not sex were talking about. If all you are interested in is making money, and the photograph doesn’t matter, then fine. A photograph is something personal, something that you should be able to hold in your hand and admire. Not just a piece of paper on a wall.
Hi Gavin,
First of all, I have to say, your article is amazing! The canvasized potraits look beautiful. Infact, i was dreaming of getting myself a few while reading
Its amazing how this transformation would make a vast difference to any room I place a potrait on.
Goodluck with your work!
Thanks,
Shuvo
Gavin,
Thank you for your podcast!!!! I have been thinking of this for quite some time due to me investing in materials from Charles (Chuck) Lewis, but I havent got everything together. One thing that I think you will appreciate that I haven’t heard you mention, is that Chuck highly recommends projecting into a frame, and over a sofa. This really puts things into perspective correctly because everyone knows the size of a standard sofa, and therefore wont think the 40×60″ canvas will look too large on the wall. The frame is for a 40×60, so that when you size down to say a 16×24″ image, the frame causes the image to seem even more inadequately sized. I too had looked at ProSelect, but thought it was too pricey, and was going to try the full screen option in LR, but I like your solution for LR much better. Oh and another thing you may be interested in. Bruce Hudson gave a webinar through Marathon Press a while back on projection sales for weddings (2 part series, I think for $69) that you should still be able to get.
Gavin,
Thanks for the great article. I’m looking for a projector. Would you comment on why you purchased the Canon LV7330?
The LV7370 is a great projector. I went with it because it has good specs and a good price at under $1k. I like also Canon products so I wanted to give it a try and I was not disappointed.
Gavin,
I really enjoyed your camera dojo interview.
How important is the Canon’s 3000 lumens for projecting in a room with moderate ambient light such as in a client’s home? Is it that much more important than a unit with 1500-2000 lumens? Any reason you didn’t opt for a 1920×1080 (2 mega pixel) unit with higher pixel resolution such as the Optoma HD20 at less than $1000 vs. the canon’s 1024×768 (0.78 mega pixel)? Was it purely price or did you have other considerations?
I’m having a hard time deciding between higher light output vs. resolution. Any insight you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hey Gavin,
I called projectorpeople.com and they gave me really good advice. They are affiliated with Ron Nichols of PPA who has tested many of them. The 7370 was one of their 2 highly recommended projectors for professional photographers. They even have discounts for PPA members so I went ahead and ordered one. Thanks for leading me down this path!
Glad you worked it out David. I do love the 7370. As to others. There’s no rule about about how many Lumens you need. It’s kinda like the megapixel game. Resolution is important, but usually in this price range you’ll get 1024×768. The high ones are often wide-screen and you want a 4:3 projector, but a widescreen (ie 16:9). This is because the more square picture is better for showing proofs because you can show a vertical at a decent size.
You can also get higher res 4:3 projectors. I’ve seen some of the upper end Canon units work and their amazing. Their also quite spendy and not really needed to get started.
This was very helpful information about portrait and print sales.
I’m sorry, but it would take my family months to save up enough money to buy one large canvas print. The average family, especially in the current economic state, doesn’t want to drop $500+ for a print. It’s kind of like buying a car. The average person wants something affordable but decent then gets pressured into buying something expensive and more than they need. Large canvas portraits are a luxury for most people. But I suppose it depends on your clientele.
Also, I don’t think I’m downgrading my photography by hanging 8 x 10’s. It’s what I can afford…..but I suppose for some people, size matters.
Just my two cents
Ok, I’ve read through here and I really have to give some input. First of all, I LOVE big, bold, beautiful photos on the wall! I have two 24×36 canvases on a wall in my dining room and I’ve just ordered a 30×40 of my month old grandson. Of the ones I have now, one is my youngest daughter from the waist down. I gaze at it sometimes, remembering how she was then. The detail…the iridescent sparkles dotting her flp-flops, her perfect 8 year old toes, her chubby little hand holding that piece of lilac she’d picked up, her white eyelet dress *sigh* NOT something I think I could admire nearly as much in a 5×7! I live in a VERY small town in KY and I have to be honest and that I’m ashamed to say in the two years I’ve been photographing for profit, I’ve only sold ONE 16×20, nothing any bigger, and it was a family portrait to a woman I’d say was middle class, definitely not wealthy. My studio is in my home, so yes, when clients come in for their session, there are my canvases, BOOM-right in their face! They ooh and aahh and I brag (hey, they’re my kids!) on how great canvases are, but they never buy
WHY? First of all, I think people prioritize their money and what it’s spent on whether they are low income or wealthy, I mean, there are some “poor” folks who don’t blink an eye at $150.00 for a purse, so maybe they don’t vision a photograph like I do, it’s not a priority, a Chanel purse is higher up on the list? And second, sorry Gavin, I have to say some probably can’t really afford them, as much as I’d LOVE for them to, for the same reasons as you: a work of art, something personal to them, on their wall, something that will give them the same feelings I get when I look at my daughter’s canvas. Oh well, maybe someday….just my two cents.
Hey Lou Ann. Thanks for the input. I can say that unless you’re competing with WalMart prices you’re probably getting middle class clients and middle class clients will pay. I know because I’m dealing with a similar market. I’ll be breif here with some thoughts. Not trying to be rude, just some straight info because I’ve been thru the doubts and I know their just excuses. I live in a town on about 6k people.
Why? If you’re not selling them it’s because you’re not selling correctly for wall portraits. Are you projecting? Starting from the beginning consulting and showing them what you do and leaving little things out? making it clear that wall portraits are what you well? Are you going in planning on selling 8×10’s, because that’s what you’ll be selling if you are. I don’t even show 8×10 samples.
Selling wall portraits is not an after thought. It’s not something you hope for. It’s a way of running your business. It’s a start to finish process. You can get an idea of it from here, but unless you’re at a place in your business where it really clicks you should really attend a workshop ion selling like the Wall Portrait Conference. 2010 might be the last year Ken does the conference too, so defiantly worth a look.
Good luck… Gav
Wow,
I wish I could say where do I start, but it all goes back to the bottom line,
Do what feels right to you.
I do everything big even my website.
People’s mindset will not change, think small and you will be small, with digital we must move on.
Why on earth would you not sell huge prints. I tell my client that the whole reason of hiring a professional is because your little point and shoots will not allow you to get the big prints.
I want to see each and every detail.
Memories are forever preserve them, dedicate a room or hallway make your own gallery.
If I hear one more thing about this economy I think I will get sick.
We will never move on with small, negative thinkers.
One of the reasons people choose me is because I shoot Huge, give me a billboard. What are images for, they are “HEY LOOK AT ME”
I could go on, but I’m with you Gavin.